VOLUME 9 ISSUE 45  NOVEMBER 10, 2005

The Wild Card?

A conversation with possible gubernatorial candidate Ben Westlund

By H. Bruce Miller

the Source Weekly: Okay, so the topic of the day, the big buzz--Ben Westlund for governor, running as an independent. I take it you still have not made a decision on this.

Westlund: No.

Do you have a timetable for making a decision on it?

No. Here's what I can tell you. ... I don't know if you recall the editorial in The Oregonian in August, I think it was. It said they were worried the next gubernatorial election was gonna be one scoop of vanilla versus another scoop of vanilla. Ben Westlund--he's a whole different flavor.

What flavor are you, Ben?

I'm the Oregon flavor.

Okay--very diplomatic answer.

Ever since then, as you might imagine, I've been getting speaking requests from all over the state. And I've been happy to accede to as many as possible. Have speech, will travel. And what I've been doing is ... trying to do more listening than talking. ... The long and the short of it is that of the many disadvantages an independent candidacy would have, one of the few advantages is that you have time to decide. In fact an independent candidate is probably strategically well-advised to delay declaring. So this is nothing that's immediate.

Kulongoski has really got his problems. The story came out last week that Roll Call, the Capitol Hill paper, said he was the most vulnerable of all the incumbent governors that are up for re-election. They did a straw poll at the Oregon Democratic Summit [in Sunriver this fall]--this was kind of funny--[former Democratic Gov. John] Kitzhaber came in first, and you came in second, and you're not even a Democrat, and Kulongoski came in third, or maybe it was fourth. ... I saw you there; you got a big hand too.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. All those guys there, they're political activists--they know what's going on. ... This is 500 politically active Oregon Democrats, and you heard the applause. That's the type of reception I'm getting all around the state. I got some of the warmest applause, the most genuine applause I've ever gotten, at the AFL-CIO function. ... I got a standing ovation from the AFL-CIO.

How come you're such a popular guy? Or to put it more formally, what do you think is the basis of your appeal?

These people all know I'm considering an independent run. ... The Democrats aren't satisfied at all with their likely party nominee, and they see this independent consensus builder, a guy with a proven track record, that actually delights in working across the aisle as opposed to putting down the other party. Their guy seems kind of weak and vulnerable, and I have a proven track record of getting things done in a collaborative, consensus-building fashion.

Why do you think things have gone so wrong for Kulongoski? I mean, aside from not being the most exciting and dynamic personality in the world. I think obviously his problems go deeper than that. Why is there so much dissatisfaction even among Democrats?

It is a little bit of an anomaly. I don't understand this myself. He is one of the best human beings I've ever met. He's probably THE best hale-and-hearty fellow-well-met I've ever met. ... He is very genuine; he is superb in certain settings. But I think part of the party's dissatisfaction with him is that during the session he was just AWOL. I mean, he wasn't there. And there were some crucial issues going through the session that a bunch of us--Democrat, Republican, didn't make a difference--we walked uphill through machine gun fire over minefields on some of these issues, trying to take the hill, and at the end of the day Ted wasn't there. Senate Bill 1000 is the classic example.

That was the civil union bill.

Yeah, civil unions, sexual orientation, non-discrimination. One of the most fundamental civil rights issue that that legislature has ever dealt with--that ANY Oregon legislature has ever dealt with. And at the end of the day, the governor was not there. ...

For me, personally, being a chief sponsor of Senate Bill 1000 and walking over hot coals on that bill--you know, don't get me wrong; I'm not disparaging [Democratic State Sen.] Kate Brown in any way, shape or form, [but] it's one thing for Kate Brown, in the most liberal district in Portland, in Oregon, and therefore one of the most liberal districts in America, to be out there on the front lines on that bill; it's another for a senator from Central Oregon to do it. And I was happy to do it; I'd do it again. And I WILL do it again.

I'm not trying to just trash Ted here, but my real gripe--and it is a gripe, it's not a fundamental flaw--but after being AWOL the whole session, what's he doing now, continuing to this day? He's running around the state in various districts doing these ceremonial signings of bills he had little if anything to do with.

If Kulongoski doesn't get the nomination, who do you think is the frontrunner?

Kitzhaber.

Kitzhaber is kind of flirting around with it, being coy, playing hard to get. But you think he will run?

My analysis: If I'm John Kitzhaber and I have the passion for health care that I do, then I have to make a decision: Am I more effective leading some of the think tanks I'm involved in, free to concentrate specifically on health care, or am I better off having the bully pulpit of the governor's office to promote health care reform and to do all the other things I have to do as governor?

If it were just all things being equal--no contested primary, that kind of thing--I actually think John Kitzhaber would prefer to stay in the private sector. If Kulongoski is forced out or elects not to go, the Democrats will be casting about looking for a Tier One, A-list, first-class candidate, and there aren't very many of those. And John Kitzhaber leads the list.

On the other side it looks almost certain we're going to have Mannix.

Well--any one of those [Republican] candidates can catch fire. But, yes, I agree with that. I mean, it's most likely. I just don't want to say that with certainty. I will say this: I went to see Kevin speak--he was coming to my Rotary and I was there--and I will say it was one of the best speeches I've seen Kevin Mannix give in terms of political purpose. He was a much kinder, gentler, humbler, less self-righteous Kevin Mannix than I've ever seen. And he probably knows that's what it would take to give him a glimmer of hope.

He's learned to tone down the rhetoric and sound more moderate.

Yeah, he's getting good campaign advice.

So let's talk about the scenario where we have Kulongoski, Mannix, Ben Westlund--purely hypothetical, of course--how does Ben Westlund differentiate himself from both of those candidates? I guess another way of saying it is who do you see as your base and how do you stake out a position that will make you really competitive?

Hypothetically, let me just say this interview is over. I mean, if you can't discern the difference between a Ted and a Kevin and a Ben I don't know why we're talking.

Okay, let's talk about Kitzhaber.

No, no, no, no, no--actually I think that's a very good question. I see myself as very different from those individuals, both in terms of approach and in terms of capabilities. And I'm similar to each of them in certain ways as well. The way I would differentiate myself is first of all on the issues. I mean, there are few stronger advocates in this state for what I think is THE critical, crisis, crushing problem facing Oregon, and that's health care. We are--it's like we're standing on the beach at midnight with the first tendrils of the tide touching our toes, knowing the health care tsunami is out there racing at us in the dark. This is a crisis of economic and ethical proportions--of immeasurable proportions. So my Number One issue, my biggest passion ... is health care. Kulongoski--he's not there. He doesn't appreciate the magnitude of this issue. ... That has not become a priority of his. ...

I don't get the sense that either of the other guys, either Mannix or Kulongoski, even recognizes that there's a crisis.

I think too many of our leaders are just in denial as to the magnitude of this crisis. We've got ostriches sticking their heads in the sand. And maybe here's the most condemning thing: It's not because they're not smart enough or perceptive enough to recognize that this is a crisis, but it doesn't have the political gravitas, it's not a significant enough political issue for most Oregonians.

It's not sexy.

I was passionate and a crusader for health care long before I got my [lung] cancer. For me it was just kind of the human side of the thing--pain and suffering is bad enough, but unnecessary pain and suffering is immoral. I mean, that's just how I feel it. And we could do so much more than we are currently doing, and all it takes is political will. And no one is willing to invest it. There still are no more than four or five of us in the legislature that give more than a passing nod to this.

So first it's health care. And then the other thing that these other two candidates, Kulongoski and Mannix, would be afraid to touch with a 10-foot pole would be tax reform. I mean, I'm sorry--our current tax structure is stupid. It's insane.

You mean the reliance on the income tax.

Yeah. We have the highest dependency on a single tax in the nation. That tax happens to be the most volatile tax in the nation, producing the most extreme revenue swings of any state revenue structure in the nation. In this last recession Oregon's revenues fell further and faster than any other state's in the nation. ... We were down $2.2 billion, and that was 19.3 percent of our general fund. ...

It's not just a tack-on sales tax--you've gotta have fundamental systemic tax reform. I'm making big progress on this in the legislature. Back in the 2003 session I got two guys to sign on to my bill. This last session I got FOUR guys to sign on to my bill. So I've doubled my support, baby--I'm on a roll!

But it's absolutely fundamental and critical to the future of this state--for social services, to attract businesses. And you know, my proposal is pretty simple--cuts capital gains, cuts income tax in half, lowers property tax, deals with the corporate minimum, has earned income tax credit, renter relief, so it's not regressive. You wanna talk about regressive, how about a 9 percent flat [income] tax? That's what we've got right now. You make more than 15 cents, you're paying 9 percent. ...

What that proposal does ... is lower every income-tax-paying Oregonian's tax. It's a tax cut for every income-tax-paying Oregonian. Creates 35,000 jobs, because you've got more people willing to invest here or expand their business here because of lower capital gains taxes, and produces an additional billions of dollars worth of ... more stable revenue. Will somebody tell me what the matter with that is? ...

But the big issue, the big differentiation, is my feelings on partisanship. These guys are coming out of the Democratic primary, the Republican primary. They've gotta be beholden to those that brought 'em to the dance. ...

You know, if you're a little bit of a partisan that's okay. ... Clash of ideologies, meet in the middle, out of that comes compromise, comes the best policy. We don't have that now. We haven't had it for five years--10 years probably. It's our way or ... it's OUR way. And what it ends up being is no way. We have terrible, paralyzing partisanship. ...

At the Democratic gathering you went to, that was genuine, warm applause. And I think Oregonians innately are saying, "We're tired of this partisan bickering. We're tired of this partisan paralysis. Isn't there any alternative?"

The fear I hear expressed by some Democrats is that Ben Westlund as an independent would pull moderate votes away from [the Democrat]--whether it's Kulongoski or Kitzhaber--and let Mannix or some other ... radical right-wing Republican get in there. Do you see that kind of thing happening, or do you see yourself pulling votes away from both parties?

Two points, and I think both of them are equally important. The first is I won't run unless ... there's a plausible path to victory. I don't need to go through all that, I don't need to put my family through all that, I don't need the exercise or the ego strokes. I am happy being a state senator, my wife is doing a great job with the children, I love living in Bend. I am very comfortable with my life; I don't need to be governor just to be governor. I want to be governor to govern. So there's no reason for me to do this unless there's a plausible path to victory. ... There's gotta be a real shot to win.

Second point--the great thing--and this is encouraging; we started keeping track of this, because it's been happening so often--it is almost dead-on equal Republicans and Democrats coming up and saying, "Well, Benny, we think you'd be a great governor, but please don't run because you'll take votes away from our guy."

What I hear you saying is you're not in this thing just to be some kind of a spoiler or for some kind of ego trip. ... You'll only get in it if you see, as you put it, a path to victory. ...

There is no other reason for me to do it. Because there's some downsides to this. Let's say I do get in it and I don't win, but I do hand the election to Mannix, or whoever the Republican nominee is. So then Ben Westlund is going back into a Democratic-controlled Senate--how well do you think I'm going to be received there? ... I'm screwed either way if it isn't a real campaign, and it isn't legitimate, and I don't do well.

Last question: How's your health?

I just got back my second clean PET scan [a procedure to detect the presence of cancer cells]. And you can make an evaluation yourself--I mean, I'm sitting here, I'm feeling good. I've been burning the candle at both ends. I've been all over. ... And the fun thing is I'm lovin' it, and it's not wearing me down.